(no subject)

[vixenesque93]

Cross found at AF Academy's Wicca center

I've been hearing a lot of outcry blaming Evangelical Christians for this.

Well-Colorado Springs has a high evangelical population, so I can see where that theory could come from. It could also be the work of some asshole kids trying to stir up trouble for shits and giggles. Jumping to the conclusion that it simply MUST have been a product of the evangelicals is rather akin to claiming that the act of defacing a church MUST have been the actions of 'them Satan-worshipping witch folk'. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but does anyone *really* want the police poking around us every time some kid has a can of spray paint and a whim to cause trouble?

Another comparison I keep seeing is that "it's the equivalent of a swastika in a Jewish worship space". Am I the only one who thinks this is something of a stretch, given what we know about the "burning times"?

Comments

[quetz.livejournal.com]

Yes, I'm sure it was those damn dirty jews who snuck the cross in there hoping to stir up trouble between the Jets and the Sharks.

[princekermit.livejournal.com]

I see it more akin to a dog pissing on a tree to mark its territory.

[quetz.livejournal.com]

We should just sniff the cross to see whose butt it matches!

[glitch25.livejournal.com]

I mentioned lighting it on fire and doing a spiral dance around it, but then there is the question of which robe color to wear. :-)

[clayshaper.livejournal.com]

THIS... I think it was just dog-pissing, and I thought it was a smashing Idea when Jim suggested they should have just lit it on fire and held a big long "peace keeping" ritual, changing the negative energy into positive...

...yeah, the christians might have been offended- but you never know... maybe NOT.

And in any event, it'd be gone. O:)

[obake.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the whole swastika thing... that's a little much. And by "a little", I mean out of line. It wouldn't be ridiculous if instead of a cross, they left burnt witch dolls tied to stakes, or pentacles in a hangman's noose or something like that.

I mean, really, how hard is it to take a Christian cross and modify it into a Brigid's cross?

[waterfaery.livejournal.com]

I think it's the equivalent of leaving a cross in a jewish temple (and I say this as a cultural Jew).

Message: "convert!" rather than message "die die die!"

Certainly leaving a swastika in a temple would be considered a death threat by many. When I was eleven years old, some kids from my school put an eight foot shaving cream swastika on our lawn and it was very, very disturbing for the whole family. I suspect a cross would have been moderately less so. A burning cross, more so.

It's likely, though, if a pentagram had been left inside the evangelical church it would have been assumed to have been malicious and "attacking" Christianity, and possibly have been sent by the "devil's missionaries".

It amazes me that the same people will on the one hand say witchcraft is a fiction made up by crazy misguided nonconformists and on the other hand say it is the work of the devil sent to harm them.

On the other other hand, it seems likely that the vast majority of Christian cadets (and pagans for that matter) are live and let live, and that in this particular case no individual or group is being threatened.

Symbols have cultural context for both sender and recipient. And while I agree with obake that the recipients can transform the item as they wish, the intent to upset--if not to harass--is clear.

Sounds to me like a nice multifaith ceremony is in order. ;-)

[vonvoncake.livejournal.com]

I think it would be difficult for outsiders (non AFA people) to sneak on campus/base and place the cross when the hill really is close to the middle of the complex. Likely it is a message from some Christian cadets asserting the superiority of their religion. I would definitely liken it more to a dog pissing in corners to claim them than to either "convert" or "convert or die" sentiments.

The administration there is trying hard to break a centuries old military attitude of conformity. It used to be that even Jews were suspect in the military. It's a difficult paradigm shift for the military and the academy to make. I applaud them for their efforts, which seem even handed, above board and bridge building. But it's going to take a lot more than a couple of rings of stones to integrate Paganism into the mainstream in the military.

And to think, I very nearly went there. Had an appointment and everything. Flunked my final physical. YAY!

[fearless-son.livejournal.com]

I think it should be seen as a nice "welcoming gift" from the local Christian community. Show them appreciation for it by carving and painting Wiccan iconography into the wood of the cross, maybe use it to hang things of spiritual significance from.

After all, a cross has no inherent symbolic value except that which people attribute to it. So take that cross and change what symbolism people see in it. This, I think, would send a nice message back to those who gave it to the local Wiccan community.

[clayshaper.livejournal.com]

I've been unusually irritated lately, at the "they're out to get us!!!" mentality in the pagan/wiccan/magical communities.

I don't mean they're NOT... cause, well. Some people are, yah.

But SERIOUSLY. Why can't we just shrug, and go "Eh. Idiots." and take it down?

Why does everyone FREAK OUT when they show pictures of Mr. Murderer with a Triskle around his neck, and start screaming how NOW everyone will BLAME WICCA!!!

Why not just shrug, the SAME way we do when a loser has a cross around his neck. We shrug, or even snicker.

Why give them the EXTRA power, that above and beyond bothering us, or scaring us, we should give them a whole worldwide INTENT?

Bah. I think they're kinda lame and pathetic. Good for blowing off, or wagging a finger, or otherwise treat it as the crime it was. They were wrong to put it there. Punishment is suitable. Let's punish them for what they DID, and not what we think they might be thinking of doing... yah?

/rant

[pathdancer.livejournal.com]

It could also be the work of some asshole kids trying to stir up trouble for shits and giggles

That's likely. Most Evangelicals I know (and I know a lot) don't usually harass by stealth. They're in your face.

Another comparison I keep seeing is that "it's the equivalent of a swastika in a Jewish worship space". Am I the only one who thinks this is something of a stretch, given what we know about the "burning times"?

Actually, I don't think it's much of a stretch at all. Even as a prank, the cross is meant to harass and intimidate (it's meant to represent the majority and "right thinking", etc. etc. That's probably why it was used). Same with a burning cross in from of an African American household, or a swastika at a synagogue, or serving steak to a Hindu.

At the very least, it shows a total lack of respect (pranks often do). That really doesn't need to be tolerated - by anybody.