There's a more complex discussion here - there's a balance between public and private that trends toward the public over time for several reasons. As you move more toward the public space, the connection between payment and receipt of services becomes less clear.
The real issue, though, is memory. The oldest in the society experienced a time when there wasn't public healthcare, and worked to institute it. The younger, now growing older and wielding more political power and stronger opinions, didn't experience that past. So they complain. If they manage to lower taxes, the public services impacted will be missed, and the next generation will bring them back.
That pretty much sums it up-no one likes to pay for services but everyone wants services.
I'm picturing a pendulum swinging, actually. They'll go back and forth, but never quite as extreme as the generation (or so) before until finding a good place in the middle to settle.
Interestingly, there hasn't been a middle yet. Look over the last thousand years - we just keep socializing more and more. We didn't used to have public utilities. We didn't used to have public transportation. We're talking now about public internet access. Anything that ends up defined as "needed" by everyone, or economically beneficial for everyone to have (like school) trends toward the public.
Regressive tax structures are not productive...you'll end up with everyone working for the government and nobody actually producing goods and services.
I don't mind paying for, say, socialized medicine, instead of or in addition to the pathetic american insurance system, but the real question is, how are those taxes levied?
As I said, the connection between payment and receipt of services isn't clear. All you have to do is *ask* the question you just did, regardless of what the answer is, and you create fear, uncertainty and doubt.
By the way, your logic at the beginning is circular. If the government provides goods and services, there's nothing wrong with everyone working for them. Not that I think that's a great idea, but that's not the way to argue against it effectively.
In addition to the other statements made here (I agree! get outta my brain... creepy!) there's also I think less concern in my mind, for two other reasons:
The same paper has articles about how they have the most millionaires in the world... despite high taxes, the rich stay rich- the poor are certainly paying the taxes, but so are the rich. ;)
We also have a MUCH higher 'real estate' tax than they were complaining about, by FAR... they just have higher income tax really. Washington state has a shocking sales tax (almost 10% now!!) on pretty much everything but 'bare' edibles... scary. Talk about hitting the poor- but think about how it hits the /rich/ too- they can just afford it. O:) (my beef is tax-shelters, but I won't go there right now- the poor have no chance at them, the rich get tons, bleah.)
-And about the gas tax? how far do they ever have to DRIVE in Norway?? How big is thwe whole COUNTRY? It's brethern/sister countries? Holy cow... I was paying taxes on a 70 mile daily commute just to play babysitter... (well, they were, as I had them pay the exact gas costs, but you see the point, I suspect) -how far can a commute THERE be? not like the US, I hope! We're bad about that here.
Norway is cranky. I say, lets worry about our own crankies first. ;)
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2007-07-18 05:54 pm (UTC)There's a more complex discussion here - there's a balance between public and private that trends toward the public over time for several reasons. As you move more toward the public space, the connection between payment and receipt of services becomes less clear.
The real issue, though, is memory. The oldest in the society experienced a time when there wasn't public healthcare, and worked to institute it. The younger, now growing older and wielding more political power and stronger opinions, didn't experience that past. So they complain. If they manage to lower taxes, the public services impacted will be missed, and the next generation will bring them back.
no subject
Date: 2007-07-18 05:58 pm (UTC)I'm picturing a pendulum swinging, actually. They'll go back and forth, but never quite as extreme as the generation (or so) before until finding a good place in the middle to settle.
no subject
Date: 2007-07-18 06:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-18 06:21 pm (UTC)I don't mind paying for, say, socialized medicine, instead of or in addition to the pathetic american insurance system, but the real question is, how are those taxes levied?
no subject
Date: 2007-07-18 06:52 pm (UTC)By the way, your logic at the beginning is circular. If the government provides goods and services, there's nothing wrong with everyone working for them. Not that I think that's a great idea, but that's not the way to argue against it effectively.
no subject
Date: 2007-07-18 10:33 pm (UTC)The same paper has articles about how they have the most millionaires in the world... despite high taxes, the rich stay rich- the poor are certainly paying the taxes, but so are the rich. ;)
We also have a MUCH higher 'real estate' tax than they were complaining about, by FAR... they just have higher income tax really. Washington state has a shocking sales tax (almost 10% now!!) on pretty much everything but 'bare' edibles... scary. Talk about hitting the poor- but think about how it hits the /rich/ too- they can just afford it. O:) (my beef is tax-shelters, but I won't go there right now- the poor have no chance at them, the rich get tons, bleah.)
-And about the gas tax? how far do they ever have to DRIVE in Norway?? How big is thwe whole COUNTRY? It's brethern/sister countries? Holy cow... I was paying taxes on a 70 mile daily commute just to play babysitter... (well, they were, as I had them pay the exact gas costs, but you see the point, I suspect) -how far can a commute THERE be? not like the US, I hope! We're bad about that here.
Norway is cranky. I say, lets worry about our own crankies first. ;)